Philadelphia media already smearing Rutgers, Pitt
by On the Banks on Apr 12, 2011 7:15 AM EDT
in Big East Conference
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PrintWhat happened to yesterday's report that the vote was a 4-4 split, and West Virginia was also known to be opposed?
Supposedly, Rutgers and Pittsburgh are the schools throwing up roadblocks, wanting to know if taking a team that plays in a 18,500-seat soccer stadium, PPL Park, even with the potential for expansion, really helps the league after a fall in which the Big East took major hits for not being BCS bowl-worthy with no ranked teams. Of course, it's a heck of a coincidence that one of the two schools voicing objections is closest to Villanova geographically and the other complainant shares a state with 'Nova.
Here's a radical notion: how about everyone in the Nova camp stop worrying about ulterior motives, step back, and realize the very concept of Villanova spending millions to upgrade from the FCS level, and then planning to play in a 18,500 seat soccer stadium with no concrete plans for expansion (to a meager 30,000 total, mind you) was not even remotely feasible in any capacity. The emperor had no clothes. If their membership would have improved the conference's revenue picture, then they would have received the go-ahead. Of all people, you would think a former CSTV executive in Rutgers A.D. Tim Pernetti would have a good handle on any revenue-related matters.
Yes, the Providence College cadre who currently and always have ruled the Big East with an iron fist deserve criticism for leading Villanova on to an extent, but the league's greater sin was in trying to drag unwilling football schools along for the ride from the start of this process. Villanova football in the Big East was an ill-fated gamble designed to stave off an inevitable conference split along football lines. Any person suggesting that the rumored "no" votes (provided they even occurred, and the story isn't just cover for Villanova being gun-shy about financial outlays) were motivated by pure self-interest as opposed to sheer incredulity that the outlandish proposal was ever seriously considered in the first place is seriously off his or her rocker. There was no near-term scenario were Villanova could be anywhere close to competitive in Big East play. Any suggestion to the contrary would represent the very height of arrogance.
Nova was hardly an innocent victim here in demanding that the other BE football schools accommodate their upgrade by lowering standards, or in issuing a steady and continuous stream of leaks to ratchet up public pressure on the league and their supposed conference allies. Villanova simply wanted to preserve their seat at the basketball table on the backs of the other conference football programs, which is completely unacceptable. Not a single leak over the past several months displayed one iota of sentiment that the Wildcats had any intention whatsoever of attempting to field a competitive football team.
For now, we wait.
However, several sources have said that the matter has to be finalized by May 31 so that Villanova can become a full-fledged member in football by the start of the 2014 season. The Wildcats would play the 2012 and 2013 seasons as an independent before it can receive full membership in football.
Let the weekend's events be a warning shot across the bow to the conference offices in Providence. The old rules no longer apply. TCU joining the Big East will finally give the football schools a nine-to-eight voting advantage, and then the gloves can finally come off. We have not seen anything yet compared to the sparks that are yet to fly. All of the years of inconsiderate, shortsighted decisions designed to marginalize Big East football at each and every opportunity could finally be repaid in one sweet coup de gras. The eight saboteurs would then be exposed in the event that far-off scenarios wherein the six "power" conferences possessing automatic bids to BCS bowls decided to secede from the NCAA ever came to fruition, forever locking out mid and low majors from the majority of television revenue. (This paragraph is not an endorsement of such a proposal, merely pointing out its role as a motivating fear in these discussions.)
If today's firestorm of finger pointing is any indication, there is even more of a reason now to split the baby. Why do we want to be in business with these wretched monsters in the first place? Better to invite Temple instead, who actually offer somewhat of a viable candidacy (large enrollment/alumni base, already FBS, not contractually barred from the Linc, etc...), and say sayonara to decades of backroom scheming and double-dealing. Count your blessings today Rutgers fans, because if these reports were accurate, Mr. Pernetti may have just prevented the Big East football conference from becoming so watered down that it would drown in a pool of its own incompetence.
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Excellent post
I think you are dead on about TCU and the fate of the Big East once the football schools finally have a voting advantage.
It is too early to speculate, but I anticipate the possibility of Notre Dame siding with the football schools on voting issues too, as they would appear to be more inclined to ally themselves with the moneymakers in the conference.
by TheMattROb on Apr 12, 2011 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
On ND
Matt, ND gains much by preserving its current status of affiliation with the BE. This means that in contrast with what you just said, ND will endorse the BE schools as its interest are more aligned with the Bball schools than Footbal.
TCU fan here
I’m sure that we’ll be voting with the football schools, as football-football-baseball-women’s basketball-basketball is our tower of sports interest, but I’m curious as to just how long this divide has been raging and what problems have occurred that have led to such a bad relationship between the football and basketball sides.
The peak was probably around 2005
After the ACC raid and we were left with what we have now. Due to equal members on both sides, nothing was really accomplished ever, even though the football schools tend to bring in more money for the conference than the basketball schools.
A lot of fans describe it as the basketball schools preventing the football schools from doing anything because since football drives everything in college sports, you would think that the conference would be trying to improve its football reputation by getting more money through bowls and TV deals, but we have the lowest revenue of all AQ conferences for football. On the other hand, we have the best TV deal for basketball.
by oaklandzoo12 on Apr 12, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Providence College has a stranglehold on the commissioner's office
despite being the least important BE team. The non-football schools try to sabotage football every step of the way because they’re afraid of losing their grip on power.
by On the Banks on Apr 12, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd argue that
DePaul is the least important Big East School… they were bought in as a rival for Marquette and a way into the Chicago market. Notre Dame already does a better job of both those things. Plus DePaul is god-awful. At least Providence has a competitive team every 4 years or so, I don’t know WHAT they do at DePaul, but they stink.
by Quint Stevenson on Apr 12, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all...
…forget your voting advantage as the Big East generally does not work on a majority vote system on major conference matters, especially membership. Second, I don’t think Nova is a good football fit for the league – that being said, they are getting treated badly by the football members who had to know that PPL was the venue that was being put out there for the longest time but waited until the last moments to pull the rug out. The basketball side has agreed over and over to help the football side out. They have accepted TCU as a full member which does absolutley nothing for basketball. Programs like Villanova are the reason all these schools, including Rutgers, did everything they could to join. Perhaps the reasons the football schools are questioning Nova are absolutely on the mark – but is this really the way you treat a conference member?
how do you know
they waited until the last minute? ALL we’ve heard have been leaks out of Philly. For all we know this has been contentious from day one and Nova has just been spinning.
This is a business, not a charity. Villanova football would be a parasite on the rest of the conference.
by On the Banks on Apr 12, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
UConn was Div 2
how long ago? exactly. Same With USF. It’s a quick process if managed properly. Philadelphia is a huge market in a sports-crazed city. Temple is alright, but a Big East schedule would have HUGE draw for Nova games. It lifts the $$$ for the TV contracts. We already have Florida from USF, forget the Central Floridas, East Carolinas and Houstons of the world… promote from within, we don’t need anymore leaches on the basketball end of things. And if we were to split into Football/non-football schools, USF and Rutgers better stop stinking up the court.
by Quint Stevenson on Apr 12, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Every single report on this has been that Nova was going to use PPL. In fact, there were reports coming out of Pitt in January that they were not happy with the use of PPL. Why did the conference wait until Sunday to tell Nova the invite was no longer out there? I agree that Nova football probably does not belong on the BCS level – I have thought that from the first time it was mentioned. But Nova is a member of the conference already. If the league tells them they are invited, then they are invited. When this first surfaced, all the Big East was waiting for was a “yes”. There is nothing at all to indicate that the Big East told Nova you need a stadium that will hold “x” amount. Even now no one is asserting that Nova did not follow whatever guidelines it was asked to. We know the football schools were aware of PPL as early as January when Pitt expressed concern – so why not tell Nova at that time? Just a bad way to treat a conference member – that’s all. And before you disparage Nova as a parasite, lets remember that when Rutgers joined, they were not blowing anyone’s door off in football or basketball.
Nonsense!!!
Pitt was balking loudly at PPL from the moment it came out of Nova!! As far back as December, I’m pretty sure.
by YankeeMePleeze on Apr 12, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That is exactly the point. The football schools never told Nova PPL was not a viable option. The fact that Pitt expressed concern in December yet the football schools let this process continue until two days before the vote is ridiculous. And Pitt was not balking at anything. They said they were concerned,but never said they would be against it if PPL was used. That’s a big difference in letting Nova believe all they had to do was say yes. Look – I think the football side is right about Nova and an upgrade – I just don’t see it working. But come on, they were strung along and treated pretty shabby.
One small point you are leaving out
18,000 for PPL never was a viable option and Villanova evidentally has not assured expansion to 30,000 at PPL as would be required by the FB schools. The PPL owners can’t afford/nor want it and Nova can’t pay for it. Philly/Pennsy is too far in debt to make it politically feasible for state or local funding. Nova has had months to get their house in order and haven’t even spoken to the PPL builder to get hard estimates on expansion cost. That is why the FB schools are complaining about PPL NOW, Nova is winging it. Hope is not a strategy. The FB schools old and new did all of their expansion on their own dime or through their own financing, the only way Nova gets PPL to 30,000 is with help of the BE. Why should the other schools subsidize this venture when they themselves received no such help? Why should Pitt and Rutgers subsidize a FB school that will compete for Philly market share and recruits, especially Rutgers in South Jersey? The sense of entitlement from Nova supporters is breathtaking in they expect that the other FB members should trust their good intentions with no real viable means to assure the hoped for outcome on both stadium size and attendance. People comparing Uconn and USF’s transition from FBS are ignoring the fact that they are two large state schools. Not so for Nova. Apples and oranges.
Very well-written, congrats
Excellent point about Temple.
This is not the pre-Al Golden Temple.
Golden put the program on a proper footing and a team that returns 14 starters is being coached by an SEC-battle-tested staff. Temple didn’t hire Addazio and the offensive and defensive coordinators at Florida to revert to losing.
In the stands, Temple has finished first in the MAC in attendance three of the last four years.
While one of those years includes a Penn State visit, MAC teams often have a “home” game in a big neutral stadium against a Big 10 foe so that’s nothing unusual.
Temple’s season ticket sales went up 35 percent from 2009 to 2010 and it’s expected to be a larger increase for 2011.
Temple’s TV ratings are good.
The bowl game against UCLA was the highest rated college football bowl game on ESPN in the Philly market since 2007 (Penn State in the Alamo Bowl).
Channel 6 took two Big East games off TV this summer for Temple games. They are no dummies. They wouldn’t do it for nothing. Their research indicated that more people watch NIU-Temple than a BE game involving non-Philly-area schools.
by templefootballforever on Apr 12, 2011 9:00 PM EDT reply actions
The power shift from basketball to football has started...
Regardless of how it got to this point, Villanova is unlikely to become an all-sports member of the Big East now. The Philadelphia market provides little near term benefit from a football perspective, if ever. A good Villanova FBS team would be a questionable draw, at best (measured by fans in seats and tv ratings). A bad Villanova team (guaranteed for the foreseeable future) draws nothing outside of year 1 (curiosity factor).
There just isn’t any incentive for existing football schools to subsidize (emotionally, financially and otherwise) a FBS Villanova program. It will not move the dial for an expanded Big East football television contract. It will not provide any additional competitive balance. It simply will not improve anything for the existing football schools.
Problem Villanova has is that the football schools hold all the leverage right now in the Big East. The powers that be up in Providence realize they are likely left holding a bag of worthless scraps if the football schools bolt and that only becomes more pressing once TCU is officially in the fold.
I don’t think Villanova cares all that much about football anyway. They realize they lack the resources, alumni base and intangibles to be truly competitive year in and year out in FBS football. Simply put, the potential returns would never even come close to justifying the required investments (both initial and recurring). Villanova is only entertaining FBS football because of their desire to avert becoming irrelevant in basketball.
This is the opening salvo of what is a new age in the Big East where the football schools begin to openly exert control. Villanova recognizing this, will enter into a survival mode – anything to maintain major conference affiliation. As the football schools look to add a 10th program (e.g., UCF), the desire to kick out the dead-wood (i.e., DePaul) suddenly becomes something Villanova (and other core ‘basketball’ schools) can agree with.
The football schools are going to be calling the shots going forward and they recognize the business advantage of being in an expanded Big East for basketball – they won’t easily throw that away. But they won’t just let anyone into the football side of things either.
The football schools won't hold all the control because...
…voting on major issues in teh Big East require a super majority, not a simple majority. The baskebtall school can prevent further expansion very easily at this point. I don’t think th efootball schools, especially the original membership, is eager to walk out on the New York, DC, Philly and Chicago markets so quickly. And Rutgers/ Cuse/ UConn does not bring the NYC market with them – if they did they would be in the Big Ten next year.
'Basketball' schools need the 'Football' schools, not the other way around
Doesn’t matter what the bylaws of the Big East voting policy say because the leverage is with the football schools. If the basketball and football schools split, the football schools will still maintain a major conference affiliation. The basketball schools will be relegated to mid-major conference status.
The basketball schools are looking to avoid that at all costs because they suffer the most financially from a split. They not only lose prestige of the league association (which will have some impact on per game revenue and fan support), but they will not come anywhere close to obtaining a television deal (the primary business driver here) for basketball like what they currently have.
The football schools have a financial incentive to maintain the expanded Big East for the added basketball revenue purposes, but not at the expense of sacrificing their football revenue.
Bottom line, the football schools can walk anytime and still be okay from a revenue perspective (maybe even better depending on how things unfold). The basketball schools can’t afford to see the Big East split so they will have to concede to the wishes of the football schools.
The football schools absolutely are in control.
IMO
the Big East’s AQ status is under enough fire (especially after 2010 UConn) that the last thing they need is to add a AA program with a stadium that seats less than 20k and that may not probably won’t fill up even that.
Either they move heaven and earth to bring onboard either Notre Dame or Kansas/Mizzou or they should stand pat. MAYBE they could get away w/ BYU as a football-only, but even there I’m not sure that adds value. Nova or the CUSA schools would only hurt the Big East, not help it.
TCU doesnt vote.
TCU has no voting rights for 4 years as part of the compromise to make them an offer for membership in the BIG EAST Conference last fall. The commissioner announced that compromise made with the Basketball schools at the time of TCU’s acceptance.
The football schools know where the door is. They can leave anytime they want and drop the $5M in the basket on the way out as per their membership agreement. The football schools’ leverage consists of one decision…Either stay with the Basketball schools or LEAVE to form a football first conference.
Villanova has no one to blame but itself for weak planning and many of the Villanova community understand that fact.. It’s an embarassment to the the University that they presented a plan where they need handouts from other BE football schools to help their minimalist upgrade. They plan to play in front of the smallest BCS crowds in the country at a leased soccer stadium in Chester and suffer an estimated a BIG EAST Football loss of several Million dollars a year beginning in 2014.
Big East Football is by the far the lowest revenue BCS conference in the country and bringing in a small private school with a very small fan base, limited alumni and no on-campus stadium availability is just a poor business move in every sense. If they really want the Philly TV market, then someone better wait for JoePa’s obiturary and hope Penn State reconsiders. (doubtful)
Villanova football has no TV fans to deliver the market so it has very limited value in a contract negotiation.
by Butch Hobson's elbo chips on Apr 13, 2011 9:32 PM EDT reply actions
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